Liv Nixon chats to Izzy Gladstone, Global Head of Marketing in Healthcare and Life Sciences for PA Consulting, about overcoming self limiting beliefs and the importance of male allies.
Liv: Hi, Izzy, welcome to the show!
Izzy: Thank you very much, Liv. Thank you for having me. I’m really grateful to be here.
Liv: I’m excited to have you and find out all about your journey, which has been quite impressive! Looking back at your career history, you joined Eye for Pharma right back in your early days, didn’t you? Is that pretty much where you started your career?
Izzy: Yes, Eye for Pharma was my first job after university. I started applying for jobs in London while finishing university and got the job at Eye for Pharma. It was just me and two other people, one of whom was Paul Simms, who some people in the pharmaceutical industry may know. I stayed there for a long time in London and then in Australia. I had a break for a couple of years where I thought the grass was greener. It wasn’t. Then, I came back and worked in Thailand before moving to Australia and America, all with I Forfar. Just before the pandemic, I Forfar was bought by a holding company owned by Reuters events or Reuters. As a result, we became a part of Reuters events, which was essentially Reuters’ first B2B events company. This acquisition allowed us to evolve into a bigger organisation with a stronger brand, which created more opportunities for us. I moved to a different organisation, PA Consulting, almost a year ago. PA Consulting is an innovation consultancy based in New Jersey, although the company’s headquarters are in the UK.
I am heading up the marketing for health and life sciences at PA Consulting, one of the biggest sectors in the company. While PA Consulting is relatively new in the US, it is a well-known organisation in the UK. While I am responsible for global marketing for health and life sciences, including the UK, the biggest opportunity for us lies in the US. We have a lot of work to do in terms of building awareness and increasing our visibility, as we are still considered a challenger brand. It’s exciting to be a part of this journey and one of the reasons I joined PA Consulting was to expand our reach beyond the UK.
Liv: It’s a new challenge for you, after your journey with Eye for Pharma and then Reuters. You get to start this journey again in a way, don’t you?
Izzy: It is a new company, so I’ve spent the last year learning about management consultancy, it’s operations, and the way they communicate. However, the marketing foundation remains the same, and my approach to marketing hasn’t changed. It’s about applying the principles of good B2B marketing to a new business. The first step is understanding the new business, and then figuring out how to apply these fundamentals.
There are enormous growth opportunities here for me personally, as well as from a company perspective. It’s not like I’m coming into a well-established marketing function that has everything set up and they’re doing everything a hundred percent the way it should be done. There are lots of opportunities for change and doing things differently, so that’s really exciting as well.
Liv: Do you think that opportunity for disruption and change would be one of your main drivers?
There are enormous growth opportunities here for me personally, as well as from a company perspective. It’s not like I’m coming into a well-established marketing function that has everything set up and they’re doing everything a hundred percent the way it should be done. There are lots of opportunities for change and doing things differently, so that’s really exciting as well.
Liv: Do you think that the opportunity for disruption and change would be one of your main drivers?
Izzy: Probably not. Personally, I don’t like change, but my biggest driver, and I’ve known this for a long time, is creating business impact or creating value for the organization, whatever that may be. B2B marketing, for me, is about instant gratification. You can see social impressions, downloads of a report, or sales leads coming in. That’s what excites me – the ability to move the needle and create value for the organization through marketing, and then being able to see that impact down the line, whether it’s in a month’s time or 18 months time. So it’s less about disruption and more about the end impact that excites me.
Liv: Yeah, that makes sense. So take me back a little bit, Izzy. Was it always marketing for you, or have you always had a passion for the life sciences aspect as well? What came first?
Izzy: My first passion was events, which is why I joined. I figured that I wanted to organize events, but I think they hired me because I had a relatively good understanding of the commercial realities of the world.
Over the weekend, I was talking to my husband and reminiscing about a childhood memory. I used to love setting up a shop with all the Mr. Men books and pretending that people could come and buy them. Having a shop was the most exciting thing for me. This idea of creating value or creating something always drove me. I’m not necessarily inherently driven by money, but in marketing, it translates to social impressions, lead generation, and sales leads.
I always had that backbone of wanting to create a commercial impact. So it was always events, and then I got more excited about marketing while doing events. I certainly felt like I had much more ability for it than some of the other aspects of the conference organising production cycle. I leaned into marketing and ended up in the pharmaceutical and healthcare side of things. It happened by chance, but I am inspired every single day working in this industry. It’s a very easy story to tell from a marketing perspective because fantastic things are happening every day.
That’s how I fell into pharmaceuticals, but I’m very happy. I wouldn’t change it for anything. I think it’s a fantastic industry to be on the edges of and being able to tell stories about it is very inspiring.
Liv: It’s interesting, really. I think it’s only since doing this podcast that I’ve been exposed to so many people talking about the good in the industry. You must have seen a lot of that too, having been at all these major events and heard people speaking about their passion for what they do. It’s totally inspiring, isn’t it?
Izzy: It is. Obviously, the pharmaceutical industry can get a bad press, but it’s hard for me to take much notice of that because, as you said, I’m exposed to so many amazing stories of what the industry does and how it helps people. And at the moment, it’s going through such an amazing development. With the healthcare transformation that we’re seeing, as well as scientific breakthroughs, I think the next 10 years are going to be really exciting in terms of how medicine is going to change healthcare. Yeah, it’s very exciting.
Liv: I totally agree. I think we’re probably at the best time to work in the industry there ever has been. Talk to me a bit more about yourself and your work-life balance. You’re based in the States. You mentioned your husband. Do you have children? How do you make it all work?
Izzy: Yeah, so obviously, I’m not born in the US. I was born in England, but I haven’t lived there since about 2008. I’m a mother of two children, eight and ten years old, and they were actually born in Thailand. I’m also a wife to a New Zealander, so this cements us as truly global citizens in the world! Outside of work and family, I would call myself a competitive runner, and you’ll find me running around the town where I live between 5:00 AM and 7:00 AM six mornings out of seven. I run for a club as well as the Garden State Track Club, and I’m currently working on breaking 18 minutes for a 5k. Running to me has always been something that has been very important to my identity in many ways. I have always run since school and dabbled with triathlon when I was in Australia as well. I think it’s not just the work and family balance, but also the work-family-training hard balance. What I’ve learned is that you have to be forgiving of yourself. Sometimes, you can’t do all three well at the same time. If I’m going through periods of heavy training or working on a cycle up to a big race, I might not be there all the time to create lots of playdates for my kids or do fun excursions because I’m tired. I might have to move some of the work projects around a little bit or just give myself a little bit more grace. It is important when I think about how to manage work and family because you can’t do all three at the same time. Maybe you can juggle two, but it’s always a balancing act, and it’s taken me a while to learn and understand that and be forgiving of myself.
Liv: Yes, that bit is really important, isn’t it? Giving yourself a break sometimes. I don’t think we do enough of it. Do your kids run?
Izzy: No. And I wouldn’t want to pressure them to think that they should be doing this and for them to then hate it because running is not for everyone. We all know it’s really boring and hard. Some of these races I do have kids’ dashes and things, but I’m probably the last person to ever sign my child up for a kid’s dash. If they hate it, they’re going to hate running forever, and that would be terrible. So no, they do sports but not running. I think it’s very particular, it’s not for everyone.
Liv: No, I agree. I do try, but I’m never going to be a runner! (Laughs) When we first spoke, I was keen to get into this topic because, a) it was hilarious, and b I think it’s an important topic for us to cover. When we first spoke you had quite a reflective moment where you were talking to me about whether you’d experienced any workplace bias and what it’s been like being a female through your career and whether or not you noticed any impact.
I’ll let you tell this story, but we talked about the importance that Paul Simms has played in particular in your career. First of all, tell me a little bit about that and coming to work with him?
Izzy: Yeah. You explained it very well then, but when we first started having this conversation, I think you said, “Tell me about the impact that workplace bias has had on you?” I can’t remember what the question was specifically. I think that particular week was International Women’s Day, so there was a lot going on thinking about equity, quality, and how we can make sure that there are more female leaders in the right roles and all of this stuff. I just remember thinking, “This is stuff that doesn’t happen to me. I’ve never felt any workplace bias.” That was the first experience I had, the first thing I thought of. And then the second thing I thought was, “Because of that, maybe I should invite someone else to this. Maybe we should invite Paul to this podcast because he’s the one who’s really helped me the most, and he’s going to have loads to say about this.”
And then I laughed and realised what I had just done, and started being more reflective about what was happening. My experience wasn’t that anyone pushed me down or didn’t give me opportunities, but rather that I didn’t put myself up for those opportunities. That was the first thing. The second thing is about Paul; he has always been a massive supporter of me and other female employees he has worked with. I think he does it from a very authentic place. He’s not doing it for some sort of social media exercise; he genuinely thinks that the women he works with deserve the opportunities they’re given. I think he understands that, with me, I sometimes lack the confidence to put my hand up for things or to believe in myself to do things. It’s amazingly powerful, both in terms of what it does for you personally and what it can do outside of one-on-one conversations with others in an organization. After we had that chat, I called him and said, “Oh, we’ve got this idea, we want to bring you on to talk on this podcast.” He laughed, and we had a bit of a laugh about it, how funny it was. He basically said no. Paul is someone who is very happy to have a conversation with people and be on a podcast or be on a video. However, he said, “No, I’m not going to do it. You need to do it on your own. It’s important for you, and I think you should be celebrated in your own right.” It was the right decision. It was very enlightening for me to see that I had done that, and it helped me understand where my bias had come from. It wasn’t anything external; it was because I didn’t feel like I could do these things. Whether it’s because of my own ability or because I felt like I wouldn’t be able to manage it from a work-life-family balance perspective as well. There’s something there as well around the opportunities that Covid has created for women. It can be seen in both ways, but certainly for me, it has opened the door to being able to do more from a career perspective.
Liv: You live in the US and work for a company headquartered in the UK. That, in itself, tells a story. The conversation we had was funny, but it also made me reflect because I think you did the classic thing that I’ve done before in my life, and many women do when I approach them to be interviewed on this podcast. It’s that immediate “I don’t have enough to say about this. What do you want to talk to me for? I’ll bring someone else on.” And it just so happened that someone else was a man. “Just bring a man in, and it’ll all be okay.” It was funny, but on a serious note, it’s really interesting to see that when you reflect on it, you can limit yourself just by your own self-belief.
Izzy: Yeah, definitely.
Liv: So talk to me more about allyship and mentoring. Is Paul someone you would call a mentor?
Izzy: He’s a really good friend, I would say. Yeah, that’s how I would describe Paul. He’s always been interested in my work and my career and has supported me in that way. And when you find someone like that who you can have conversations with and who helps you see things differently or motivates you in a slightly different way, I think it’s very powerful. Personally, I’m looking for someone like that at the moment, and whether that’s a regular catch-up that I need to put in Paul’s calendar every quarter or I need to find someone else to support me in a different way, I think it’s important.I’m not sure, but I think especially for me and my career right now, as the kids are getting older and becoming more independent, I want to make sure that I’m not just coasting along quarter by quarter. I want to do things that really make an impact, not just for the organisation, but for my career. I think that’s another thing that women sometimes overlook or don’t prioritise. Personally, it’s one of those classic things where if I have a list of things to do on a Saturday morning, the things for myself always get deprioritised, I’m busy doing things like picking up shoes for my kids or taking my son to soccer, while my personal goals go to the bottom of the list. The same thing applies to my career. I tend to deprioritise it, but I need to shift my mental state and remember to prioritise my career too.
Liv: (Laughing)I reckon I spend about 75% of my life picking up shoes. What is it with them? My husband is just as bad. Just put them away!! So, do you mentor anybody else?”
Izzy: I don’t, and I think that would be really useful. Again, it comes back to the fact that I don’t really know what I would say to someone. But I think it would be a valuable experience and would help me grow as an individual. PA Consulting has a mentor program, so you can be mentored by people, and they provide specific training if you want to become a mentor yourself. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about getting more involved in. But again, it just doesn’t get prioritised for me. I have this campaign to launch, events to attend, and other things on my plate. But I think mentoring could be a valuable tool for my growth opportunities and to help others along the way.”
Liv: So, talk to me a little bit about how success looks like for you. Do you ever take a moment to sit back and think, “This is my aim, and this is how it’ll feel when I get there?”
Izzy: Not really. It comes back down to this idea of, am I being valued? So, am I doing a good job in my role in marketing? As I said, that comes mostly through the data that comes in, but obviously, of course, being given opportunities by others in the organisation that show that you are doing a good job and capable of leading.
But I think, again, in reflection, having this conversation with you has made me think that I need to prioritise not just the job that I have in front of me, but what I want to do in my career. So, not just the next quarter or the next two quarters, but where do I want to get to? And I think you do a little bit of that with professional and personal development.
But often, I think those things tend to be very core to the quarter by quarter. So, by this quarter, I want to do this, and by this quarter, I want to do that. And by the next quarter, I think I need to think about a little bit more holistically around where I want to be.
In part, I had a bit of a realisation, I don’t know, about five years ago maybe, but I realised that I never wanted to be the next CEO of anything. When the Sheryl Sandberg book came out, “Lean In,” I read it and thought, “I don’t wanna lean in actually. I’m actually okay not leaning in, just doing my job, doing a good job, seeing my children in the evening, cooking them dinner. That’s okay with me.” That, for me, is success.
I don’t love my job so much that I feel like I need to be doing it 12 hours a day. Yeah, I really enjoy what I do. Eight hours a day is fine. Don’t get me wrong, there are days when you need to do more than that, but I don’t feel like I need to be leaning in. And I think in some ways, that book was a bit damaging, because I don’t think women should feel like they need to be the next female leader of the world. No, some people just do a very good job of what they do, and that’s great, and that’s what they should be valued for.
The realisation that I’ve had is that I don’t need to manage hundreds of people and be at the top of a massive organisation. I just want to be doing interesting work, leading interesting projects, creating great marketing that has real impact, and telling great stories in the pharmaceutical industry.
Liv: So, okay. I’ve got a couple of questions for you. One question that I have to ask you, that I ask everyone, is about the Sliding Doors movie. Has there been a single moment in your career or in your personal life that was perhaps so pivotal that everything shifted in this particular direction?
Izzy: I spoke about it earlier, but for me, it’s not a moment, but a time. And that’s Covid. Because what it did for me was level the playing field, I suppose, just in terms of responsibilities at home. And then also, not just that, but also it opened up the possibilities. I didn’t have to be in an office five days a week. Prior to Covid, I had been working at home for Reuters events for six years. And to me, I couldn’t see how I could be a mother, be a wife, and not work at home. But at that time, pre-Covid, there were not many jobs that were remote. Most of them, especially where I live in New Jersey, required commuting up a highway to some industrial park in New Jersey, or you were on the train into New York for an hour a day in an office.
What Covid did was just say you don’t actually need to do that. You can be at home, and so you can still take your son to soccer at five o’clock. You don’t have to be juggling three babysitters or aftercare schedules or whatever. Like you can still do these things and not feel like you’re failing all of them, which is the way I felt it would have been if both me and my husband were commuting every single day, five days a week. It would have put such a strain on our family. Whereas now we’ve got a great balance. I go into the office a couple of times a week. My husband goes in a couple of times a week, and we’re able to have very good careers and a good family life where I get to see the children most evenings and make them dinner most evenings.
So for me, that was it. It opened up a whole world of possibilities. And don’t get me wrong, Covid was very hard, the first few months of being on lockdown. But I think the impact that it has had on opportunities for women is great.
Liv: Yeah. Do you think that will sustain moving forward? Because sometimes it can go too much one way, can’t it? I don’t know. I guess it’ll be interesting to see.
Izzy: Yeah, I think it will. I think, obviously job markets change over time and are cyclical, but I think employees want flexibility, and that’s been shown. I think people will choose job opportunities that give them the flexibility they need. It’s just opened up people’s eyes to the fact that it’s possible to work in Texas and manage a team in New York, and it works. Or it can work, right? Don’t get me wrong, whenever I go into the office, I very much enjoy being there, and it happens every time I go in, about five o’clock in the evening, everyone ends up chatting, sometimes about work, sometimes not. It’s just this little hum that kind of goes, and everyone’s finished most of their meetings. It’s just really nice to see the human connection. So I think that’s still really important, but I think the flexibility of being able to choose when you can do that, when you don’t need to do that, will continue.
Liv: I hope so. I hope so. What advice would you go back and give yourself, perhaps thinking back to the time when you were at university before you embarked on this career? What do you think you’d go back and advise yourself now if you could?
Izzy: I was thinking about this in preparation for this, and one of my responses might have been, “Don’t worry about stopping your career when you have children and taking a backseat,” but then I don’t know whether I’d necessarily say that because I liked what I did when I had children. I did take a bit of time off, and I was offered the opportunity to do that. We didn’t have to have me working, and I enjoyed that break. So actually, I don’t think that. I think it would probably just be more around confidence and ability, just being more confident and believing in yourself. And this is constant, not just work, but not worrying too much about what other people think. And I think we all struggle probably with that, but I think that’s massive. And I think as you get older, you lose that a little bit more and more. Yeah, you lose that “I don’t care” actually. Yeah, I know I’m good at this. I know I can do that. But I think it’s just that, yeah, that initial confidence and ability. But that’s such a hard thing to tell someone to do differently, I think.
Liv: Yeah, you’re right. But it is so true, and it changes everything, doesn’t it? Just that outlook. If you could sometimes see yourself the way others see you, it would help, wouldn’t it?
Izzy: Yes, it really would.
Liv: Thank you so much for being such a fabulous guest, Izzy. It has been so lovely to get to know you and hear your very incredible journey.
Izzy: Thank you. I love what you’re doing. This has been a lovely experience talking to you about this. It’s really made me think about myself and my journey and where I’ve been and where I want to go. Thank you for giving me that opportunity.