This Girl KAM with Ana Paula Carvalho

Liv: Hello, Ana Paula. Welcome to This Girl KAM!

Ana Paula: Hello Liv. Thank you for having me.

Liv: You’re very welcome. I’m excited to talk to you. I appreciate you taking the time, so thank you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, not just your career, but your home and family life as well.

Ana Paula: Okay. So, I was born in Mozambique, on the 4th of July, 71. I’m married to Miguel. We will be 28 years of marriage next year. We have two boys, Gonzalo with 24, and Pedro with 23. And we have a dog, Boss. We are currently living in beautiful Madrid. I’m Portuguese, but because of my, professional commitments, I had to move to Spain and I love it. So, I’m a mother, I’m a sister, a daughter, a friend, and I just enjoy life. I’m always looking forward to meeting different people, so it’s a great opportunity to meet you, Liv.

Liv: Likewise! That’s one of my favourite things about doing this podcast is I just get to chat with incredible, awesome women all the time. So how long have you lived in Madrid?

Ana Paula: From a professional perspective, I’ve been with Pfizer for almost 20 years, and there was a function that I had to do from Spain when I was the cluster lead for the hospital business of Pfizer. At that time, Spain was one of the key growing markets for the company. Although I had multiple markets under my responsibility, the one that was supposed to grow the most was the Spanish market. And it was a turnaround type of strategy. So, my global president asked me to move to Madrid and do my role from here. And, and so since 2018, I’m based in Madrid. It’s a very multicultural, friendly, city. You will find people from all over the world. You will always feel welcome in Madrid. It has been a tremendous experience for me and my family. It’s one of those moments where the personal life and the career comes together and the stars align, and I am very grateful to be here.

Liv: Do you get to go back to Portugal often?

Ana Paula: Yes, I do, because it’s a one-hour flight, roughly five and a half hours by car. So, I’m able to go to my home country often. It’s as if I have the best of both countries, I’m also very proud of being Portuguese because also Lisbon and Portugal overall, although I may have a bias, it’s a very beautiful, welcoming country, very sunny and the food is amazing! All those things that people tend to say, but that’s exactly the reality. At least for me, that’s the reality.

Liv: Tell me a bit about your career?

Ana Paula: An important piece of me is my profession, and I do try to integrate as much as possible in a balanced way, my profession, and all the other things of my life, so it’s always that integration that I fight for. I do have a very diverse background from a career perspective because I started in clinical trials and regulatory affairs in the pharma industry. Then I moved to corporate affairs and government affairs types of roles.
I assumed responsibilities in terms of pricing, reimbursement, negotiating with the authorities, and epidemiological studies. And somewhere in time, when I was already at Pfizer, I had a significant twist in my career. I assumed a business unit with responsibilities of marketing and sales. Something very different at that time for me. I was managing the speciality care business unit. It was a tremendous experience. From there, I became the country manager of Portugal. Which I did, for almost five years. At that time, it was also a period in which Portugal was under the intervention of the International Monetary Fund.
I was vice president of the pharma industry, so I worked a lot with Troika. The negotiations of the memorandum of understanding gave me not only external exposure but also internal Pfizer exposure because I was already working, for Pfizer at that time. it went quite well. And, because of those positive outcomes, Pfizer asked me to move together with my family to Italy from the Italian business. And that started my international career. It was a period when everybody was saying that it was too late to start an international expat type of career because I was already more than 40 years old. My kids were 12 and 13 years old, but we spoke and we took a decision as a family and we felt that for all of us was going to be positive, which turned out to be the case.
We moved to Italy once again, assuming the responsibilities of the business. P&L, digital transformation at that time. From there, I continued to grow within Pfizer, in very diverse types of roles. I became Central President and had multiple roles to the point that during the pandemic years, I was Chief Commercial Officer for China and all emerging markets.
So Africa, Middle East. Latin America, and Asia. It was two years doing the role virtually. At that time, I was supposed to move to New York. But I ended up never moving. While my direct reports were all In the U. S., in New York. It was an amazing experience. I felt that during those two years, I learned more than as if I had done the role for more than four years. But it was only two years. It was a learning experience. It was an amazing difficult learning period.
From there, I became the Regional President for Immunology and Inflammation. So coming back to Europe responsibilities, but also Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and South Korea. Again, an amazing experience in the role that I have currently as Western, Cluster President of Pfizer.
So it’s a very diverse background. I never had a master plan, honestly, but, in my mind, it was always about, grab the opportunities, life will unfold, focus on what you need to deliver, bring others with you in your journey, and try to always look for the common good that everybody could obtain.
So I’m very grateful for the career I have at Pfizer, but also for all the other companies for whom I have worked.

Liv: Your career is incredible. You must be proud. I’m sure your family are as well. I’m intrigued to know what it is that you love now, about what you do. You are clearly passionate about your work. Tell me a little bit about the bits that you love.

Ana Paula: What I love, it’s the fact that more than ever, my personal purpose is connected with the company’s purpose. I always say to the people with whom I work or even others that I have the opportunity to discuss their career and visions for the future, try always to find things in which your personal purpose can come to life and be connected with the purpose of the company that you are working for or you are willing to work for. And so these are some of the things that make me very happy to go to work every day and to connect with my colleagues and have the business discussions that I need to have. Because above all I do want to positively impact others.
Whether it is my team members, either if it is peers, or even people that I can come across. Because when I speak about positive impact, it can be the most simple thing, like a smile. When you are walking in the street, and you just cross by another person, and you give a smile. It can be those small positive impacts, or it can be helping a colleague when they need to prepare themselves for an interview or be a sounding board for another person that works for the same company, or even external companies that have a hurdle, a need to have a perspective, or just to be listened to.
So that’s why I say. My personal purpose of positively impacting others is connected with Pfizer’s mission of delivering breakthroughs to patients. It’s impacting patients positively. That’s what I love the most in my job. And of course being more concrete, when I think about my leadership responsibilities, it’s trying to support my team members, removing the potential hurdles that they may have in their markets, because the Country Managers report to me, trying to support them to flourish, to grow, to achieve their own personal aspirations.
The reality is, whenever I’m highly connected to my purpose, it’s when I make the best decisions, and it’s when I positively impact the communities, the colleagues, and the business, because it comes naturally, the positive impact on the business. And, in my case, working for, the pharmaceutical industry, I’ve been a patient in the past. I know how it feels to have a diagnosis, to want a medicine and that medicine to not be available in your home country and to be desperate to control the symptoms that you are feeling. So, in difficult situations, I always try to remember what I felt and what others may be feeling for their specific condition.
I think we should all be very grateful for working for the biopharma industry. Because the power we are given is tremendous and therefore we need to be highly conscious that with great power comes also great responsibility. When people are sick, it’s when they are highly vulnerable.
Everything you do needs to take that into consideration. So when I work with my team, and coming back to what you were saying, I try to help them, because through them, and the in-country colleagues, we can better support the healthcare providers. Giving proper and transparent information about the therapeutic areas in which we work, and our products.
We can help them in also helping their patients. And that’s very special. And I think we should all honour the fact that we are being given this special opportunity. It doesn’t mean you don’t have bad days and difficult days, and it doesn’t mean that every moment of the day you feel that special connection with your purpose.
But, especially when there are significant struggles, just pause, breathe, and put things into perspective. As I said, sometimes even myself, when I complain about oh, so much complexity, so much uncertainty, this is so difficult. I try to be self-aware, and not allow myself to stay there in that dark space.
As a human, I allow myself some days to feel sorry for myself, but I don’t want to be stuck there. You know, because when you start reflecting and doing that self-assessment. Putting things into perspective. Come on. Eventually, the most terrible thing, it’s either for you to lose a family member, a son, a daughter, or have a tremendous, difficult diagnosis for which there is no solution.
Those are real problems, right? The rest, I think, we can find a way. It doesn’t mean that it’s easy. But we will always find a way, and if we cannot find it on our own, reach out to others. That’s one of the things, I strongly believe because sometimes we feel so alone and so heavy with the hurdles and the problems.
But when you start sharing, when you speak with others, you will be positively surprised that people do want to support you. We just also need to be vulnerable and open ourselves to others. If that makes sense.

Liv: It makes absolute sense. So you recently contributed to Jill Donahue’s A Dose of Inspiration, 100 Purpose Stories of Pharma leaders, and I was hoping you would tell me a little bit about that experience, you went through the interview process, was there anything new that you discovered about yourself? Chat with me about that.

Ana Paula: Yeah, you know, for me, it was a tremendous opportunity because, during the interview process, the questions, that I was, being asked to answer, some of those questions were also a moment to reflect, on my life early years in Mozambique, the revolution days, the return to Portugal and Europe.
And I think it was the first time in my life that I honestly, allow myself to reflect on it and try to understand how my personal journey in those early years did impact me, in my adult years. So it was, it was as if till that moment I was always in a kind of a rush in terms of my life, not pausing and reflecting.
and even nowadays, for instance, a while ago you were saying, I have an impressive career. And I’m not saying this to get compliments, honestly, but, in my mind, it’s a normal career, I think it’s still related to the fast pace and not allowing myself some time to reflect. And it’s important to reflect because it’s when we pause that we move forward more strongly.

When I interviewed with Jill, it was the first time I, really reflected on those early years, and the learnings from those early years. The fact that I was a very young child when I arrived in Portugal, that it was supposed to be my home country, and yet I didn’t recognize it as my own country.
At a very early age, being with my brother, he was six years old at that time, and the entire day I wouldn’t see my parents. I don’t want this interview to be a moment of, “poor her”. It’s not that. I wish others to have some of the experience, let’s call it that, some of the experience I had at very a early phase. But the reality is that those experiences gave me tools throughout my entire life till this day, you know, because it was very profound, very foundational of who I was going to be as an adult.

Liv: What you’re saying makes so much sense to me in terms of taking that time to reflect. It isn’t something we do like you say, you just get on with life. It’s just, you know, especially once you start having children and life just keeps going, doesn’t it? And, and we don’t get that time to pause and reflect and you’re absolutely right. It’s so important.

Ana Paula: I got additional clarity about my purpose because it was as if I had fragmented things that I was doing, but she helped me to have clarity on my personal purpose. And to make it clear, to me and even to others when others ask me. And that allows me to define where I want to put my energy and what are the things that are just noise and what are the things that will allow me to bring a better version of myself and also how can I bring the better version of others.
It’s not always perfect. There are days that you cannot, you may not bring your better version. There are days that you may struggle, but at least it gives you a north star.

Liv:  So did you find it changed for you as you were going through the process? Were there any real aha moments that changed the way that you think?

Ana Paula: Yes, it was when she started asking questions, and she started identifying commonalities throughout different periods of my life, and it was when we started noticing that, in different situations and different periods, I would be very resilient.
In different moments and different periods, I would always try to focus on what matters the most. Your personal values, your family, doing the right thing. In different moments, understanding that diversity, inclusion and equity were always present. So, she helped me to identify, once again, those foundational assets that I had, but I was not conscious of them.
And also, realised, and this is something the people I know, know that I say a lot, which is, that the more I give, the more I have. And she was the one also helping me to realize that. She allowed me to put together my personal journey in a way that I can share with others and eventually inspire others.
Also, to bring their best versions moving forward.

Liv: You say ‘eventually’, I’m listening to you now, it is incredibly inspirational, your approach to your work and why we’re here. Like you say, it is a privilege to work in this industry and to treat it as so is utterly inspiring to hear.
I don’t think we hear enough of that from people in roles like yourselves. So, thank you for that is one thing I would say. I am curious if you don’t mind me being a little bit more nosy, about what triggered your interest in regulatory affairs. What, brought you onto this path? I understand there was a clear connection to that wanting to, serve people and, make a positive impact in people’s lives. But, when was that born for you?

Ana Paula: When I returned to Portugal, as I said, I was almost four years old, I became a very introverted child. I was extremely introverted, but I do remember that during those very early years, I forced myself to speak up whenever, either in the playground or in the classroom, whenever I felt that something was unfair to a colleague or to someone that I was observing in the playground, I always felt this impulse to speak up and not to stand by.
It always came very naturally. That willingness to help others was always and still is, it’s easy for me to put myself in the shoes of others, and I always felt the need to help others, to speak up for others when I saw that they were not able to do so. That’s why even later, as a teenager when I had to decide what career path I wanted, it was not easy because either I wanted to be a lawyer, and defend people or I wanted to go to a more scientific area, but also in the perspective of biology, helping others and so on.
So till very late, I was trying to decide exactly what I wanted. And I remember my parents did several exams to try to help me to clarify. The results of the exams were always both possibilities for me. So, in the end, I decided to go to pharmacy. I was always clear that I didn’t want to be a physician because I felt that I couldn’t bear the suffering of others.
But I discovered, that even working in industry, you do still come across the suffering of others, different levels of suffering, but still suffering. So it was as if I wanted to avoid the suffering of others, but, as a human being, you are always exposed to that. I was very naive. One can say. But, since my very early years, I always thought about it, to the point that I do remember that somewhere in time, I was even considering being a nun.

Liv: Really?

Ana Paula: Yes, really! But anyway, as I grew older and went to the university, I met my husband and, there went the nun idea!
But you do start to realise that a simple, consistent kindness can have a tremendous impact on others. I remember a situation when I was in the north of Portugal, I went there for a concert for the weekend with my husband, it was a Coldplay concert and we left extremely late. We couldn’t find taxis and we started walking back to the hotel. After, almost one hour of walking, I said to my husband, “Honestly, I cannot walk anymore. I’m so tired. I wish a taxi would pass by here.” It was in a place where you wouldn’t see anybody. And suddenly a taxi appears. Of course, we entered the taxi and I was so thrilled, I started speaking and chatting and so on. And it turned out that that man was suffering tremendously because he had just lost his mother. And we started speaking and by the time we reached the hotel, he said, to me and to my husband, “You know, the fact that we started speaking today, it warmed my heart and I didn’t feel so alone. I feel that someone saw me.”
That’s why since that situation, I always try to remember. We never know what’s going on in the lives of others. And that’s why simple, small acts of kindness can indeed have a tremendous impact on people. That’s why my purpose is always to have that positive impact. It doesn’t need to be big, huge things, though if we can do them we should, but it can be also simple things.

Liv: The culture that you inspire must be awesome to work in. How do you instil it? How do you go about leading with this approach?

Ana Paula: One thing I’m conscious of is that I am who I am as a person at all levels of my life. So there is not a version of me for my work, a version of me for my family, a version of me for my friends. I’m always the same person, and I guess it’s being authentic, and sharing with others, even with my team members, that sometimes I don’t know all the answers. Sometimes I may have a bad day, and I just acknowledge and share with them, and I tell them. It’s also okay if they don’t have all the answers. And this is where shared leadership becomes so powerful. It brings out the best of others for a greater common good. You know, above all, this is what I try to bring to my team members.
Let’s bring our best version, but never forgetting that we are human beings. Having a safe space to share things that are in our minds, positive or less positive. But let’s work as a team, as a group, where the different parts become so powerful. Being authentic allows others to trust you and to bring this mindset of trust.
This common idea that the ‘we’ is bigger than ‘me’. I think this is above all what I try, to bring to them. And it doesn’t mean that we do not have moments of tension. It doesn’t mean that we do not have moments in which we need to make very difficult decisions that also can impact others.
But it’s also about being professional, aiming for excellence and bringing out the best in others. I can be very demanding. But I’m always transparent. I’m giving so much of myself. So bring your best version. How can I help you to achieve that excellence?
Because sometimes people are confused that, “Oh, you are kind. You are too soft.”. It has nothing to do with soft. You do not shy away from constructive conversations or difficult feedback. You do not shy away from making difficult decisions. It’s all about the environment in which you create. You want others to be successful. You want others to achieve greatness. Greatness in the sense of really delivering value for everybody. And that can be very demanding. But you also demand from yourself. Even when you give candid feedback to others. You need to be humble to receive the same candid feedback about yourself.
Some people sometimes are distracted when they see soft skills or when they see that you want to use your brain and your heart. It’s indeed the magical mixture. It’s the brain and the heart and taking the right decision.
But it’s putting everything up for discussion and it doesn’t mean even that after some discussions, I need to make the final decision, but at least we can try to have a diverse perspective about the things we are working on and sometimes acknowledge that there are things we can influence, there are things we cannot influence, but at the end of the day, we will always be the ultimate responsible for our colleagues that work with us at country level. I try to have an environment like the one I like to have with my manager. There are no difficult topics and there aren’t things that you cannot speak about it. It’s the way you do it that makes the difference. If you come with good intention, constructive feedback, or a constructive perspective, you can say anything. You can say anything at all that is in your mind.
The good and the less good. It’s how you say it that makes all the difference. And if you are respectful, if you have a positive mindset. It’s all good. It doesn’t mean that I will always agree, but at least I will try to explain why.

Liv: One of the things I want to explore a little bit further with you is, DEI a, as a whole within the industry and perhaps what your vision would be for the future as far as DEI is concerned.

Ana Paula: I do think that it’s a competitive advantage. And once again, it’s reminding us that as human beings, we need to do the right things for others. I cannot envision a workplace in which we don’t try to be respectful, and inclusive of others. I was the co-chair of the Diversity, Inclusion and Equity Council of Europe for two years.
It was amazing. Connecting with the different groups that we have in the different markets and the amazing work that they are doing. Seeing this growing, within Pfizer, it was unbelievable. I remember we started with the women’s chapter, equity for women, also giving opportunities for women to grow and to have leadership roles, the integration of work and life. Then we started to become more holistic about the perspective of diversity, inclusion and equity. We started an LGBT chapter. We had cross-generation chapters. Disability evolving and involving other areas than commercial colleagues. Working with colleagues that were in the production sites, also ensuring that they would have the right working environment. It became so powerful and it flourished throughout the years. I see that currently, diversity, inclusion and equity are a competitive advantage. There are even studies that showcase that if you have diverse leadership positions, you tend to have better performance in terms of financials and efficiency.
There was a big study, I think it was done by McKinsey in 2011, and they refreshed that study throughout the years that showcases a work environment in which colleagues feel a big sense of belonging where they can bring their true selves to work. It’s exactly an environment in which people are willing to run the extra mile, are willing to create bridges, and are willing to have diverse perspectives, and therefore, with those diverse perspectives, you can accelerate innovation, you can disrupt and positively impact the communities and the patients that we serve. So I’m, I’m a great advocate. It doesn’t mean that we still don’t have a long road ahead of us. but I’m very proud of the journey that we have accomplished so far, not only within Pfizer, but in the biopharma sector overall, I think that companies are becoming more conscious of it.
Even the younger generations, they want to work for companies that have a clear vision in terms of purpose of mission. That allows them to do some social work and support the communities and there is a great awareness in terms of environment, so definitely it’s a big plus.

Liv: One of the things I talked about with Jill was where we are as an industry in terms of the level of trust that people have in the pharmaceutical industry. I alluded to the fact that when I started my career, I didn’t really see the ‘good’…
I was far more exposed to the cynical views of the pharmaceutical industry. And, I’m fascinated to get your take on where we are in regaining that trust because I agree with what you’re saying completely, as an industry, we’ve come huge leaps and bounds, with diversity, inclusion and equity.
What about trust?

Ana Paula: Yeah, you know, just to tell you a story, my youngest son is in the final year of becoming a doctor in the UK. And when he started, in medicine, he told me, “Mother, you are on the wrong side of science, because you are in the industry.”  I started to realise that indeed, the lack of trust, is huge.
I think we are still suffering from mistakes from the past, and I think that eventually, we need to better communicate the positive things we are doing. We need to better communicate how regulated we are as an industry and as a sector. It is one of the most regulated sectors. When you compare industries, it’s one, if not the most regulated industry, but the reality is it takes one to damage the image and the good work that you try to do throughout the years.
And I think that’s because, as I said, of mistakes of the past. We are still suffering from that, but there are also positive evolutions. For instance, I remember that during the pandemic years, all the market research was saying that Pfizer was being considered one of the most innovative companies that impact people’s life, that bring value.
I think that we need also to continue to communicate the positive things we are doing. For instance, the Global Alliance in terms of bringing medicines to low-income countries. It’s a massive global initiative and several multinational companies are involved. It started also with the participation and the leadership of Pfizer.
But these things tend not to come across so strongly. Even with some of the initiatives that we have in terms of diversity around clinical trials, ensuring that we have a proper pool of populations in our clinical trials, it doesn’t come across so strongly. So I think that we have evolved, but there is still a lot we need to do to better communicate
the positive things we are doing, the obligations that we have in terms of regulations and transparency.
But we will continue to communicate. We will continue leading by example. And showcase the positive value that we bring to others. 

Liv: How much is being purpose-driven and patient-centric going to help us combat that issue of trust, do you think?

Ana Paula: It does help us because if you always put the patient at centre, and what is best for the patient you will ensure that you are creating a framework that is based on ethics, transparency and doing the right thing. So if we focus everything that we do on that, if in every single decision, we try to ask ourselves, what does it mean for a patient? I think that by doing that, the rest will come. A positive working environment will come. The positive impacts in the communities will come. The positive impact on patients will come. And that will generate trust. By more than saying, we need to be the leaders by doing it. and hopefully being visible to others.
I always say, even when I interact with the Minister of Health and other people, that companies are made by people. And we tend to forget that. It’s easier to put the big labels. But it’s when you expose yourself as a colleague, you give a face to a company. People start realising these are people and, we don’t wake up in the morning with bad intentions.
Of course, some people sometimes forget good values and do stupid things, but that’s common in any sector. That’s why we try to instil the right culture, and the right values leading by example, to create the awareness, the tools of the responsibility and the accountability that you are given. It’s only through the culture and these types of mindsets that you impact those who represent the company. And at the end of the day, they are the ones that will lead, by example, and therefore this will lead to higher levels of trust.

Liv: That makes so much sense. I would just like to say, how grateful I am that you’ve come on this show and spoken to me so openly and honestly. Thank you. That was incredible. I appreciate you taking the time.

Ana Paula: Thank you to you for taking the time to speak with me.

To read Ana Paula’s story and 99 others, sign up for your free copy of Jill Donahue’s book, ‘A Dose of Inspiration, 100 Purpose Stories of Pharma Leaders.’ by clicking here!